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" I shall do so," he said, " with your help."

" Do you then believe that dialectic is to be set as the coping-stone on top of our educational structure, and that we can rightly place no other science higher than this, but that our system of the sciences is now complete ? "

" Indeed I do."

XV. "Well then," I proceeded, "it only remains for you to determine the principle of distribution, to whom we shall assign these studies, and in what way we shall apportion them."

"That is clear," he replied.

" Do you remember what kind of men we selected when we were first choosing rulers ? "

" Certainly I remember."

" I would have you then further grant that men of the character we mentioned must be chosen, that we should prefer the staunchest, the bravest, and, as far as possible, the fairest. And, more than this, we must not only require them to be endowed with a noble and steadfast nature, but also to possess traits which are suitable to the education which we intend to give them."

" What are these traits ? "

" Insight," I said, " my excellent friend, essential to the comprehension of the sciences and facility in learning. For the mind is far more likely to lose courage from the difficulties of study than from those of gymnastics; because here the toil belongs more exclusively to the mind, being limited to it, and not shared by the body."

"That is true," he replied.

" Hence the man whom we seek must have a good memory, must be indefatigable, and a lover of every kind of labor. Else how can you expect a man willingly to endure all the bodily exercises, and to stand the strain of the hard thinking and study required of him ? "

" I think no one will, unless he is endowed with rare natural gifts."

" The mistake which people nowadays make about philosophy, and the contempt into which she has fallen, may, as we before observed, be explained from the fact that those who turn to philosophy do so unworthily; whereas her votaries should not be bastards, but true and genuine sons."

" What do you mean ? " he asked.

" In the first place, her votary, as regards his love of labor, should not be ready-to-halt - that is to say, he should not be half laborious and half indolent; and this is what actually happens when a man is a lover of gymnastics and the chase, and is strenuous in the practice of all sorts of bodily exercises, but shows no taste for study, and has an aversion for listening and inquiry, and fears all intellectual labor. Contrariwise he also is lame whose love of work has taken the opposite turn."

" Nothing can be more true," he replied.

" And in respect of truth," I said, " shall we not in like manner consider a soul halt and maimed, which hates voluntary falsehood, and can neither endure it without loathing in herself, nor without indignation in others, yet readily tolerates involuntary falsehood, and indulging in ignorance is not abashed at being detected, but is content to wallow therein like a swinish beast in the mire ?"  " You are certainly right."

" Furthermore," I continued, " we ought to give the most earnest heed to distinguish the true son from the baseborn with reference to temperance, courage, magnanimity and the other virtues. For whenever they are unable to make the distinctions that relate to these matters, individuals and states unwittingly, in every such event, commit their interests to cripples and bastards, to friends in the. one case, and in the other to magistrates."

" That is quite true," he said.

" Therefore in all such things we must be on our guard; for if we shall introduce to these high studies and severe exercises and train therein only those of sound body and mind, justice herself will have no fault to find with us, and we shall save the State and defend the constitution; but if we shall bring to these tasks men of the opposite stamp, not only shall we meet with an experience altogether different from the first, but we shall also draw down upon philosophy a still greater storm of ridicule."

" That would be indeed shameful," he replied.

" No doubt," I said; " but quite likely I proved to be equally ridiculous just now."

"How is that?" he asked.

" I had forgotten," said I, " that we were jesting, and spoke a little too intensely. But while speaking I fixed my eyes upon philosophy, and seeing her treated with undeserved contumely, I was, in consequence, probably too indignant, and, in my anger at those who were to blame for it, I expressed myself too vehemently."

" No indeed," he replied; " at any rate, while listening I did not think so."

" Well, my own opinion is that as speaker I did go to extremes. And now let us remember that, while in our first selection, we made choice of old men, such a choice will not be possible now. Let us not believe Solon when he says that a man, when he grows old, can learn many things. Where as he will be less able to do this than to run; for it is to the young that labors abundant and arduous wholly belong."

" True beyond all question."

XVI. " Therefore instruction in arithmetic, geometry and the other preliminary branches which are to lead up to dialectic must be given to our pupils in their youth. However, we should see to it that we have nothing in our educational scheme which makes learning compulsory."

"Why not?"

" Because," I said, " a freeman ought not to learn anything like a slave. For bodily exercises although compulsory do the body no more harm than if they were voluntary; but no knowledge acquired under compulsion proves a lasting possession to the mind."

" Quite true."

" Do not then, my good friend, employ force in educating the children, but make their study a sort of play, so that you may, at the same time, be better able in each case to discern their natural aptitude."

" What you say certainly stands to reason."

" Do you remember our saying that the children too must be led to war on horseback, must become spectators of actual fighting, and, wherever it could be done without danger, must be brought into action, and, like the young hounds of the pack, be given a taste of blood? "

"Yes, I remember."

" We must therefore," I said, " enroll in a class apart from the others those who show themselves readiest in labors, keenest in studies, and bravest in dangers."

" At what age ? " he asked.

" When they have done with their course of required gymnastics; for the time, whether of two or three years, devoted to these exercises admits of no other occupations, fatigue and sleep being incompatible with learning; and, besides, the trial designed to show how each youth ranks in his gymnastics is not the least important part of his education."

" Certainly not," he replied.

" After this time therefore," I proceeded, " those who in their twentieth year are chosen as the best will receive greater honors than the others, and the studies which, in the earlier stages of their education, they have pursued piecemeal, must now be brought together and presented to them from the point of view of the kinship of the studies with one another and with the nature of being."

" At all events," he replied, " this is the only kind of learning which will make a lasting impression upon the mind."

" Yes," I said, " and it affords the principal means of discriminating the dialectic nature from its opposite; for in proportion as a man's mind has, or has not, a comprehensive outlook, he is, or is not, a dialectician."

" I agree with you," he replied.

" To this then," I continued, " you will have to give heed; and whoever among them are found to be most steadfast in their studies, most steadfast in war, and in other matters prescribed by law, these again, when they have reached the age of thirty, you will have to choose out of the class already preferred before the others, to advance them to higher honors, testing them by the power of dialectic, in order to discover which of them, discarding the use of sight and other senses, and, under the sole guidance of truth, is able to rise to the knowledge of absolute being; and just here, my friend, there is need of great caution."

"Why so?" he asked.

" Do you not perceive," I said, " with how great evil the study of dialectic is at present attended?"

"What evil?" he asked.

" Our dialecticians are filled with lawlessness."

" You are right."

" Well," I proceeded, " do you think anything very surprising has happened to them, and will you not find an excuse for them ?" . " How find an excuse ? "

" Let us imagine," I said, " by way of parallel, the case of a supposititious son, who, being brought up in abundant wealth, as one of a great and noble family, and surrounded by a host of flatterers, should, on reaching manhood, learn that he is not the child of those who profess to be his parents, but should be unable to discover who his real parents are. Can you guess what his feeling would be towards his flatterers and his supposed parents, first while he was ignorant of the substitution, and then after he learned the fact ? Or would you like to hear what I think about it ? " " Yes, I should."

XVII. " Then I fancy that, while he was ignorant of the truth, he would have more respect for his father, his mother, and those whom he believed to be his relatives, than for his flatterers; that he would be more inclined to help them when they were in need; that he would be less likely to thwart them in word or action, and that in essential matters he would show himself less disobedient to them than to his flatterers."

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